並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/tw/podcast/ep62-%E9%87%8E%E8%8F%9C%E9%B9%BF%E9%B9%BF-%E4%B8%80%E7%A2%97%E7%B4%A0%E9%A3%9F%E9%9B%9E%E8%82%89%E9%A3%AF%E7%9A%84%E9%AD%85%E5%8A%9B/id1565087227?i=1000567452491