並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep18-%E5%A6%82%E6%9E%9C%E6%9C%89-%E6%84%9B%E6%AD%BB%E6%A9%9F%E5%99%A8%E4%BA%BA-%E5%86%B0%E6%B2%B3%E6%99%82%E6%9C%9F-%E7%9A%84%E5%86%B0%E7%AE%B1/id1530984624?i=1000505924268
